minoanmiss: Nubian girl with dubious facial expression (dubious Nubian girl)
[personal profile] minoanmiss
I should research and write about...... the historical context surrounding African participation in the slave trade as enslavers and enslaved both.

Not least because otherwise I'm going to reach through my computer and strangle the next slavery-apologist who smugly states this fact as if it completely excuses all the horrors Europeans and European descendents in the 'New' World put their Africa-derived slaves through.

There would be a bit about how Africa has never been an undifferentiated blob of darkness, and about the sociopolitical situation in West Africa during those centuries, and about how European powers played African polities against each other to increase the numbers of slaves available and the reliability of supply.

And also, if I can manage to stop shaking with fury, a small logic puzzle. If Person A sells a working dog to Person B, expecting person B to employ the dog as a sheepherd or something, and Person B instead attaches the dog to a mill, never unchains it, barely feeds it, and beats it to make it run until it dies, we don't say that Person B is blameless for maltreating the dog because Person A sold it to them. So why is it supposed to make Europeans blameless for the horrors of slavery because they played Africans against each other to pay some for capturing others?

... or maybe I should watch more of the Olympics and read fewer Black History Month 'discussions' this month. *sigh*

Date: 2022-02-06 02:11 am (UTC)
ororo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ororo
Please do this. It needs to be done and done well and shouted from the rooftops.

Date: 2022-02-06 02:33 am (UTC)
princessofgeeks: Shane smiling, caption Canada's Shane Hollander (Default)
From: [personal profile] princessofgeeks
ALL THE HUGS

Date: 2022-02-06 03:07 am (UTC)
ex_flameandsong751: An androgynous-looking guy: short grey hair under rainbow cat ears hat, wearing silver Magen David and black t-shirt, making a peace sign, background rainbow bokeh. (politics: Black Lives Matter)
From: [personal profile] ex_flameandsong751
I really wish people would stop with the "Africans enslaved each other, that excuses everything white people did" argument, it's just so... grrr. The analogy you made is spot on.

Date: 2022-02-06 03:11 am (UTC)
oracne: turtle (Default)
From: [personal profile] oracne
Maybe blockblockblockityblock some of those idiots?

Date: 2022-02-06 03:12 am (UTC)
dine: (idris thumb - misbegotten)
From: [personal profile] dine
avoid the 'discussions' as much as you can - who wants your head to explode?

I think that essay would be important (and probably quite interesting) reading! I know that most of what one comes across leans pretty heavily upon the "other Africans sold them" narrative, without looking at what was going on politically there. your analogy is spot on

Date: 2022-02-06 03:42 am (UTC)
amaebi: black fox (Default)
From: [personal profile] amaebi
Feeling you, hard.

I recently read a very good and ferocious book about US conservative Christian promotion of adoption and campaign against abortion rights. It was a very good book about awfully painful stuff. One of its points was that families in African and Asian countries got taken, because their cultural models for fostering involved temporariness during hard times, with continued family contact and return always on the table.

Which is a long way to say how right you are.

There have been many forms of unfree labour around the world and over time, but the Race slavery invented by Euro-colonists of the Americas was the most monstrous of an evil set.

Date: 2022-02-06 04:12 am (UTC)
katarik: DC Comics: Major Slade Wilson and Captain Adeline Kane, text but I can make you better (Default)
From: [personal profile] katarik
God, comments like that just make me so screamingly furious. It's this utterly enraging refusal to acknowledge that the American chattel-style slavery was *so* new because it was built around this concept of race as a creation instead of the more standard prisoner of war slave, who wasn't subhuman, whose kids weren't inherently born into slavery -- but those people have never done any of the research into other histories of slavery, let alone the politics of Europeans and White Americans negotiating slave handling with Native American nations or other nations in West or Southern Africa.

The Roman Empire had slavery! IT DIDN'T LOOK LIKE THIS DID. Egypt had slavery! IT DIDN'T LOOK LIKE THIS DID. (You could make some arguments about Sparta, but while I am by no means a classical scholar, my understanding is that even Sparta didn't do like the USA did.)

Date: 2022-02-06 08:06 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] anna_wing
Not that new, sadly, the Indian caste system still produces what amounts to hereditary slavery in some places. And yes, lower caste people are often seen and treated as sub-human.

It doesn't make historical New World slavery any better, but very few human evils are unique to one time and place...

Date: 2022-02-06 11:18 am (UTC)
brooksmoses: (Default)
From: [personal profile] brooksmoses
Also if one is trying to argue that something is less messed up because Sparta did it too, one is making a spectacularly bad argument.

Date: 2022-02-06 04:43 am (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
There would be a bit about how Africa has never been an undifferentiated blob of darkness

YES
THANK YOU

("The country of Africa" kasdfoiqwjkldasflk)

Date: 2022-02-06 05:00 am (UTC)
xenacryst: Peanuts charactor looking ... (Peanuts: quizzical me)
From: [personal profile] xenacryst
Gah, yes. Specific examples of multiple wrongs not making a right. But, but, but! I really really want my wrong to be right, so that means that anyone else being wrong must mean that I’m right! ::flames, side of face::

Date: 2022-02-06 10:07 am (UTC)
cmcmck: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cmcmck
The complexities of the slave trade are many and local African power politics had a lot to do with it.

Date: 2022-02-06 07:08 pm (UTC)
cmcmck: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cmcmck
Barbaric?

So medieval Mali, Great Zimbabwe and the kingdom of Kongo were barbaric?

Okay............................

Date: 2022-02-07 01:43 pm (UTC)
cmcmck: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cmcmck
I've a book on my reading list about the kingdoms of medieval West Africa which I'm very much looking forward to!

https://press.princeton.edu/books/hardcover/9780691177427/african-dominion

Date: 2022-02-07 03:45 am (UTC)
cellio: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cellio

You're due a refund. :-(

People are real idiots sometimes. And then they open their mouths and show us.

Date: 2022-02-06 10:13 am (UTC)
hitchhiker: image of "don't panic" towel with a rocketship and a 42 (Default)
From: [personal profile] hitchhiker
i would spread it far and wide if you wrote it!

Date: 2022-02-06 12:19 pm (UTC)
lunabee34: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lunabee34
*hugs*

Date: 2022-02-06 12:58 pm (UTC)
sabotabby: raccoon anarchy symbol (Default)
From: [personal profile] sabotabby
Hugs. This is important nuance.

Date: 2022-02-06 01:33 pm (UTC)
used_songs: (Default)
From: [personal profile] used_songs
There have been some amazing BHM videos up on TikTok by some really insightful creators who KNOW history and are good at making it accessible, and INVARIABLY there will be some tool in the comments dredging that excuse up. I just want to ask them "did you even watch the video?" but they're probably just searching the tags so they can come and make trouble in the comments.

Date: 2022-02-06 01:53 pm (UTC)
redbird: closeup of me drinking tea, in a friend's kitchen (Default)
From: [personal profile] redbird
I would be so tempted to say "yes, and? How does that excuse what happened to the enslaved people in the Americas?"

Date: 2022-02-06 02:59 pm (UTC)
clevermanka: default (Default)
From: [personal profile] clevermanka
The way people think that's some sort of "gotcha." *headdesk* As you say, the logic isn't there! Also there were also white abolitionists in every country, too. Ugh. Bigots.

Date: 2022-02-07 03:44 am (UTC)
cellio: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cellio

Argh, yes! Between the "all of Africa is the same" idiocy and the blame-shifting ("somebody from a competing tribe with similar skin color colluded so that makes it y'all's own fault"), I want to whack people with a clue-by-four, except it'd never work, and... argh.