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minoanmiss(Why am I so pugnacious?)
So there's a Disney show set in the Star Wars universe called _The Mandalorian_. One of the cameos announced for the next season is Boba Fett, who is played by Temuera Morrison, a New Zealander of Maori descent. A lot of fans are fond of him and his characters. (He is the basis of a bunch of Star Wars characters. There was a whole thing about clones. It's a long story.
Over on Tumblr when people discussed this, BNF scifigrl47 (Tumblr denizens may remember her from the controversy over Captain America: The Winter Soldier, where she said that Steve shouldn't've trusted Sam Wilson, who might have been HYDRA (emphasis mine) and should have called in Tony Stark instead) piped up to object to this cameo because female Star Wars characters don't get such cameos.
Except 1) Mr. Morrison, and by extension Boba Fett, is a person of color in a still-predominantly-white fictional universe, whose presence pleases a lot of fans of color, 1.5) Boba Fett lost his entire cool-guy fanboy fandom when he was revealed to be a POC (and gained a very different fandom instead) and 2) Ahsoka Tano will also be cameoing but I guess since she'll be played by a woman of color she doesn't count as representation for women?
I freaking hate it when people put POC representation in conflict with representation of women. Not only is it not necessary but as a WOC I feel torn in two, and like people forget we exist.
I'm really tempted to reply with "I don't think Carrie Fisher would give fans of color the finger and tell us to GTFO of Star Wars fandom", but it's not like someone like scifigrl47 would pay any attention to a little Black fangirl like me anyway.
ETA: having seen someone I really respect reblog that post, I dropped her a line to ask if she thinks POC have a place in Star Wars and its fandom. We'll see whether she understands my question, breaks my heart, or what.
So there's a Disney show set in the Star Wars universe called _The Mandalorian_. One of the cameos announced for the next season is Boba Fett, who is played by Temuera Morrison, a New Zealander of Maori descent. A lot of fans are fond of him and his characters. (He is the basis of a bunch of Star Wars characters. There was a whole thing about clones. It's a long story.
Over on Tumblr when people discussed this, BNF scifigrl47 (Tumblr denizens may remember her from the controversy over Captain America: The Winter Soldier, where she said that Steve shouldn't've trusted Sam Wilson, who might have been HYDRA (emphasis mine) and should have called in Tony Stark instead) piped up to object to this cameo because female Star Wars characters don't get such cameos.
Except 1) Mr. Morrison, and by extension Boba Fett, is a person of color in a still-predominantly-white fictional universe, whose presence pleases a lot of fans of color, 1.5) Boba Fett lost his entire cool-guy fanboy fandom when he was revealed to be a POC (and gained a very different fandom instead) and 2) Ahsoka Tano will also be cameoing but I guess since she'll be played by a woman of color she doesn't count as representation for women?
I freaking hate it when people put POC representation in conflict with representation of women. Not only is it not necessary but as a WOC I feel torn in two, and like people forget we exist.
I'm really tempted to reply with "I don't think Carrie Fisher would give fans of color the finger and tell us to GTFO of Star Wars fandom", but it's not like someone like scifigrl47 would pay any attention to a little Black fangirl like me anyway.
ETA: having seen someone I really respect reblog that post, I dropped her a line to ask if she thinks POC have a place in Star Wars and its fandom. We'll see whether she understands my question, breaks my heart, or what.
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Date: 2020-07-12 02:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-07-12 09:06 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-07-12 02:53 am (UTC)DUDE, I SAW THAT NAME AND MY STOMACH DROPPED
(Tumblr denizens may remember her from the controversy over Captain America: The Winter Soldier, where she said that Steve shouldn't've trusted Sam Wilson, who might have been HYDRA (emphasis mine) and should have called in Tony Stark instead)
....I sure do remember that thing which was a (fucking RACIST) thing!
piped up to object to this cameo because female Star Wars characters don't get such cameos
What the shit? And aren't we getting Ahsoka?
Ahsoka Tano will also be cameoing but I guess since she'll be played by a woman of color she doesn't count as representation for women?
//POINTS EMPHATICALLY
Boba Fett lost his entire cool-guy fanboy fandom when he was revealed to be a POC (and gained a very different fandom instead)
omg really, I missed this entirely. Oh, fandom. (Altho cool-guy fanboy fandom is pretty shitty all the time.)
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Date: 2020-07-12 11:16 am (UTC)Steve is well known for meeting people and realizing "This person is a hero and I'm taking them with me, if I can get them to be stupid enough for a minute to join the fight."
I'm still salty that Sam mostly just gets connective cameo duty after CA:TWS. As if he's a post Nick Fury fig leaf. (Does this mean there are stories of his extremely badass "I'm more of a soldier than a spy, but international man of mystery? I can roll it." adventures?)
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Date: 2020-07-12 05:36 pm (UTC)I am REALLY hoping The Falcon and the Winter Soldier will be this.
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Date: 2020-07-13 01:01 am (UTC)"Yeah, picked that up while looking for your pasty ass."
Bucky says, "Natasha."
Sam had started with Steve, but apparently a Black Widow doesn't take that long to replace covers.
I think based on the trailer, at least some of it is going to be picking up post-Endgame.
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Date: 2020-07-13 01:25 am (UTC)LOL YES
....not gonna lie, I am not thrilled with MCU post-Endgame. I also don't really trust a bunch of white men to write about Sam's possible struggles being accepted as Cap, because Nick "Hydra isn't Nazis!" Spencer already did that in the comics and it sucked. I want to see Sam as Cap SO BAD, though.
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Date: 2020-07-13 02:02 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-07-13 02:15 am (UTC)You are correct in all particulars. gets the spray bottle for those two
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Date: 2020-07-13 01:13 am (UTC)But also, Fury says when he shows Steve the carriers that Tony helped them with the Insight ships: "Continuous suborbital flight courtesy of our new repulsor engines....he had a few suggestions once he got an up close look at our old turbines," which is a reference to Avengers I think. It's vague enough we don't know when he might have done it, or even if he might have just said "Oh here this is a better design," but Fury's keeping an eye on Tony even in AoU and Tony is the one who sides with the government in CW, so it doesn't seem unreasonable for Steve to think he might be compromised. He goes to the ONE person we've seen him interact with who has nothing to do with SHIELD. (And it's also just not how the original trilogy movies worked! They weren't the comics events extravaganzas yet.)
tl;dr when Sam first SHOWS UP it is a total meet-cute and he is obviously A Good Guy and MCU isn't subtle, every other Hydra mole is morally questionable (Sitwell, Rumlow, Pierce), and Sam never is. And it is so exhausting to keep having to have the "but why wouldn't Steve have gone for help TO THE WHITE GUY?" discussion
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Date: 2020-07-13 02:22 am (UTC)During one of my deep comics dives, I found Sitwell and he was being shifty. Also, white. Might have been part of Secret Wars? (They aren't particularly careful about where they pick up their representation/inclusion.)
It's totes a meet cute. The fact that egged on he tries catching Steve Rogers, yeah, that means he's a good guy and the right sort of "It's a fool ass thing I'm about to do, and my mom will kill me." Natasha though needed to not say 'fossil'; monument would have been accurate, and relic would have been apt too.
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Date: 2020-07-13 02:40 am (UTC)I think it's in Agents of Shield -- Coulson and/or Maria (don't remember by now) are the ones who tell the Avengers or Fury where the sceptre thing is, and Coulson is also the one who has the last helicarrier. It's not a plot hole exactly, but it was back when they were trying to link that series with the movies. (And I think that stopped happening after AoU "flopped," in Hollywood terms that is....) Agents of Shield S1 is also when we see the photostatic veil or whatever they call it, and the tool Fury uses to cut through the armored car when Bucky is coming after him.
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Date: 2020-07-12 05:36 pm (UTC)https://rubynye.tumblr.com/post/623456880841424896/i-finally-figured-out-a-succinct-response-to-this
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Date: 2020-07-13 01:16 am (UTC)Aww, well that's good at least!
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Date: 2020-07-12 03:08 am (UTC)also wtfffffff you were KIND to her actual argument because that actually does not fit that show. I wasn't crazy about it, but it had GINA CARANO in a major role and I loved that and she totally was never the Skimpy Dressed Babe. Ditto Ming-Na Wen (and yeah, I was pissed when she got killed off), the Armorer, and Julia Jones, who had a cool one-ep part I still want to write fic about. And having Carrie Fisher giving the finger as a reaction gif is just fucking stupid, because they TRIED to make Carrie a Skimpy Dressed Babe and she STRANGLED JABBA HUTT WITH THE CHAIN OF HER OUTFIT.
Also, it's a CAMEO. A CAMEO. If it means we maybe get Ming-Na Wen back, that'll be amazing. She's acting like it's going to be a show about (white) Boba Fett because that's what the fanboys want.
adding more men of color to Star Wars is a good thing, and simply not the same as bringing back the same white dude over and over
And she Just Doesn't Get It
I get to be grouchy about the fact that they are once again yanking a male favorite out of his richly deserved grave because a bunch of fanboys never had to learn to write fanfic to deal with their canon-based disappointment and therefore we all have to sit through the big red reset button
Also using Carrie Fisher giving the finger as a reaction gif sucks, because they TRIED to make Leia a Skimpily Dressed Babe, and what happened was Leia wound up STRANGLING JABBA HUTT TO DEATH with the chain of her fucking outfit. Skimpily Dressed Babe of the Week is definitely a bad problem in Western media scifi, but not in Mandalorian, and I don't even really think it's a problem in the SW franchise? Not really? I totally could be wrong, because I didn't see all of the prequels, but I thought that awful bikini for Leia was about the worst of it. (Again, could be totally wrong! But I thought the problem was it was more of a white sausagefest, except for Londo and Leia, and Skimpily Dressed Babe of the Week was more Star Trek.)
ETA staggering back to bed now but all props to deprofundisclamoadte and the person who reblogged it with the whole racist rant cut and added "Temuera Morrison playing Boba Fett and Rosario Dawson cast as Ahsoka Tano… I think I’ll like the second season fine!"
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Date: 2020-07-12 04:51 am (UTC)PLUS rumor has it Katee Sackhoff will show up as Bo-Katan (and I wouldn't be surprised if we eventually see Sabine as well; Tiya Sircar would look great with purple hair).
There are things to complain about with the show, but Temuera Morrison being on it is not one of them. (I just keep hoping we'll get Rex, too.)
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Date: 2020-07-12 05:35 am (UTC)There are things to complain about with the show, but Temuera Morrison being on it is not one of them
Fucking seriously! Her response to that rebuttal was so weird, she was like "I 100% agree that Star Wars needs more non-white people in general" and "And Fett not being played by a white man is a retcon from the prequels which I heartily endorse" and then....just went right on like they had cast a white actor. (I didn't think it was a retcon? Yeah the actor in the OT was white, but did we ever see his face before Attack of the Clones?)
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Date: 2020-07-12 06:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-07-12 07:20 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-07-12 07:37 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-07-12 11:27 am (UTC)definite agreement
Date: 2020-07-12 12:23 pm (UTC)From another angle: clothing that almost-reveals parts of the body that are left casually uncovered in men is "scantily clad."
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Date: 2020-07-12 05:52 pm (UTC)(I also stopped watching anything that pinged me as grimdark after around season 3 of Game of Thrones, so my tolerance may be higher to start with.)
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Date: 2020-07-12 07:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-07-12 09:05 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-07-13 03:01 am (UTC)Bleah. She really tried to scrub it but you can still find it here and there: https://inukagome15.tumblr.com/post/84679658351/captainshellhead-scifigrl47-rubs-forehead
And yeah, peoria's absolutely right, Sitwell is white (blonde, blue-eyed) in the comics. https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Jasper_Sitwell_(Earth-616)
I love TWS, and Redford as Pierce was great casting, but they also gave us Maximiliano Hernández as Sitwell and Garry Shandling as Senator Stern. SIGH. Sitwell was in Iron Man 2, Thor, Avengers, a couple of the short films and AoS (I think that was everything), so people were pissed.
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Date: 2020-07-13 03:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-07-13 03:20 am (UTC)Or for less problematic rep, they could have cast a POC actor as Captain's Orders Guy (Cameron something) and that way his resistance is even better because he's standing up to Rumlow's white supremacy bullshit too. AMAZINGLY, problems with having COC only show up as villains kinda disappear if the MAJORITY of actors are not white, whoda thunkit.
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Date: 2020-07-13 03:24 am (UTC)Heh, while a POC as "Captain's Orders" Guy would also have been awesome, I love the casting as it is because the actor is pretty clearly Jewish-American, and seeing a Jewish guy defy a Nazi will never not be wonderful. Representation matters in myriad awesome ways.
(Also, did I thank you for the links? THANK YOU.)
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Date: 2020-07-13 03:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-07-13 03:34 am (UTC)(Also, fucking LOLOL at "They need to start mentioning things. They need to start throwing the fans a bone. Comics do it all the time, we’re used to it!" I read comics TOO, and they do NOT DO THAT most of the time.)
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Date: 2020-07-13 07:18 pm (UTC)Fortunately CA:TWS is not the Condor movie, but MCU rarely is as hopeful as Muncle.
Sometimes though, all you need is some recently made friends.
"Dammit, Steve, you and Clint, what is it about blond boys? Are you metamorphosed dogs?"
"Sampling error. You've punched out the ones that aren't good."
Sam just looks. "That happened? I think that occurred."
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Date: 2020-07-13 07:04 pm (UTC)But yeah, I've run it as he was in deep cover because you don't get to whip the believability like that without signs. The version I saw in the comics was just old enough his hair nearly looked powdered, not blond.
I've basically gone with that not being brought up because while Natasha is a professional and can compartmentalize, Steve and Barnes don't really need that bit on their plate since they're not in a position to be compounding the issue.
Really, it's a good reason why no-one is a sidekick; when the heroes are default white, guess who's on the chopping block? Yep, the diversity and inclusion.
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Date: 2020-07-12 02:10 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-07-12 05:37 pm (UTC)I am hoping my standing up and pointing this out will help.
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Date: 2020-07-12 07:45 pm (UTC)(tangentially: New XKit, we need Postblock back Right Fucking Now.)
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Date: 2020-07-13 01:15 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-07-13 02:41 am (UTC)PS gratefully hugs you back
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Date: 2020-07-15 04:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-07-13 07:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-07-12 09:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2020-07-15 10:27 am (UTC)On something of a tangent: you seen Netflix’s The Old Guard?
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Date: 2020-07-15 05:17 pm (UTC)Not yet but I NEED TO. It has a couple who met while on opposite sides of the crusades and Charlize Theron kicking ass. I am SOLD.