Do I Trust Uncle Joe?

[minoanmiss]

Sociopolitics.

So Joe Biden has, finally, responded to the accusation of sexual assault against him: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/elections-2020/read-joe-bidens-full-statement-on-tara-reades-sexual-assault-allegation/ar-BB13tdwk?ocid=spartandhp

1) I'm pissed at him even more than ever for entering the race. Anyone in the US can see that we need a candidate who can accumulate as many swing votes as possible, in the face of Republican gerrymandering and other voter suppression efforts aimed at Democratic faithful. From what I understand many Democrats are undecided or even still hostile to the idea of voting for him. And now this? How many of us won't be able to bring ourselves to vote for someone with a reputation for being too hands-on and an allegation of a sexual assault against him?

2) I swore to myself when I was in my late teens that I'd always believe victims of sexual assault, and I still resent the person who made me break that vow (because I have good reason to know they were lying). Having to consider this again makes me feel ill.

3) UGH of COURSE the supposedly 'liberal' media are only bringing this up now, when people are possibly finally beginning to admit what an incompetent Cheeto Benito is, as opposed to during the actual race for the Democratic nomination when it might have made people think about how Senators Sanders and Warren have no such allegations on their record.

4) And yet... if his accuser is lying I will be even angrier. Every person who can be credibly stated to be lying about sexual assault is a millstone around the necks of all of us who have been assaulted and then disbelieved.

5) I hate politics.

Comments

[kore]

I'm pissed at him even more than ever for entering the race

FUCKING SERIOUSLY

I keep thinking, if it wasn't for him and Bernie, we could have had Warren. That might not even be true, but OMFG, if I have to vote for one old white predatory male to get rid of another old white predatory male, that feels really shitty. And yes to everything you say about sexual assault, and the possible politicizing and maybe lying, and especially THE MOTHER FUCKING MAINSTREAM MEDIA.

UGH of COURSE the supposedly 'liberal' media are only bringing this up now, when people are possibly finally beginning to admit what an incompetent Cheeto Benito is, as opposed to during the actual race for the Democratic nomination

I can't BELIEVE they're bringing this up now. The time to do that was months and fucking months ago when we had a chance to get him out of the goddamn race! ARGH. And of course they're also airing all the really fucking stupid "lockdown protests" and also carrying Trumpty's two hour Jim Jones-esque daily rantings and still producing very little actual criticism of him.

I dunno. I couldn't believe Trump would be their nominee, I couldn't believe he would be elected, I couldn't believe he wouldn't get kicked to the curb for like the first two dozen terrible things he did. I don't want to think he could get re-elected during a fucking pandemic, but who fucking knows anymore. I'll do everything I can to keep him from being re-elected, but I really don't want to vote for Joe goddamn Biden.

[used_songs]

+1 to everything above

I've spent my life holding my nose and voting for the lesser of two evils. When I voted for Warren in the primary it was the first time I was 100% all in and excited even though at that point I knew she probably wouldn't be the nominee.

Maybe all of the old men on both sides will keel over and they'll have to call the women back in.

[dira]

Just as far as the timing goes--from what I've read, Reade didn't make the sexual assault allegation publicly until quite recently, I think after Warren was out of the race? And then it took a long time for the major publications to be able to do their own responsible journalistic investigation trying to get the corroborating witnesses on the record--at the time I read the analysis of why it wasn't being reported more widely, a week or two ago, they hadn't been able to get her brother on the record, etc.--so that's why it's finally bubbling up now. They don't want to quash it because it is important, but it's a not-totally-clear-cut story that took time to report out.

(And, hey, the nominating convention hasn't happened yet, so...)

[ilthit]

I expect it's true and you guys will have to vote for him anyway. :(

[clevermanka]

Same on *waves hand* all this.

[lemonsharks]

I look at it this way:

A Republican rapist (Ronald Reagan) appointed Antonin Scalia to the Supreme Court

A Democratic rapist (Bill Clinton) appointed Ruth Bader Ginsburg to the Supreme Court

I know which rapist I'd rather put in office. Frankly, I'd put a liberal rapist in office over any Republican, including those who have never raped anyone

[minoanmiss]

agrees breaks down in hysterical laughter goes to have a drink

[used_songs]

Frankly, I'd put a liberal rapist in office over any Republican, including those who have never raped anyone

Yeah. That's legit.

[petra]

Your icon describes how I feel at this thought.

[tjs_whatnot]

Yep.

[kore]

Haha OW. Yeah.

[merisunshine36]

My heart breaks to say this but...yep.

[sabotabby]

I wonder if there's a Republican that's never raped anyone.

[stranger]

This is kind of what I was thinking. Trump normalized rape (and racism, and so on); Biden at least acts like he knows it's wrong, in hiding it. Someone with a conscience, however stained, is preferable to someone completely without. Umm, for some value of "preferable."

[amaebi]

Yep.

[lb_lee]

Yeeeeah, what you said basically. Back when I was in high school, a classmate of mine referred to voting as "shit on a cracker or shit on a sandwich" and I'm not thrilled about having to make that choice.

"The art of the compromise
"Hold your nose and close your eyes."

[bikergeek]

"Giant Douche v. Turd Sandwich", a la South Park.

[rachelmanija]

I think it's true, and my suspicion that he had sexual assault in his backstory was one of the reasons he was one of my last choices, along with Bloomberg and Tulsi Gabbard. But since Trump is also a rapist - multiple times, and without any doubt - it's an easy choice.

I figure I'm not voting for Biden the man, I'm voting for the Biden administration, which I have hopes will be pretty good. The best thing I can say about Biden - and it's a very important thing - is that he surrounds himself with people who are better than him.

[gingicat]

Yeah.

[tjs_whatnot]

When I think of all the people we could have had represent us and fight for us and never once get played in the "but what about..." of it all, I want to punch Joe Biden in his face.

But also, he's run for a lot of things and why are we just hearing about this now?

I hate politics too. SO MUCH!

[lavendertook]

I believe Reade. Not because of her background, but because of Biden's.

I think the "believe all women" mantra is a trap because absolute proclamations are a problem when there are multiple axes of powers, ie, black men being lynched by sexual accusation of white women--you have to look at the lines of power, not just gender, and see how they line up in the case. And in this case they all line up in one direction.

I think a better feminist approach that works intersectionally is: Put the accused on public trial, not the accuser. What Reade describes is consistent with Biden's grab fast, grab from the back molestation history. There is no clear line between sexual assault and sexual molestation and I wish our culture would stop acting like there is. I'm sick and tired of serial rape being the litmus test of rape. Not all rapes are the same, nor are all rapists. Biden has been into a variety approach to molestation--all the accusations against him describe different kinds of touching, grabbing, fondling and I could believe he might never have grabbed anyone else the way he grabbed Reade, or he might have. But the fast grab and let go is consistent with other accusations. Hand-over-the-mouth forcefully hold down would be a break from his approach if that had been the accusation, but Reade's is not. He let go when he felt opposition. It is still rape, and I see how it fits in with Biden's modus operandi of all this transgressions with women's personal boundaries/sexual harassment/sexual molestation, or one more of the many facets of rape culture/the undermining of women's autonomy and agency/ patriarchy/hierarchical oppression.

I'm pissed off that the media and much of the voting public completely dropped and forgot Lucy Flores' accusations just last year and all the women who also came forward, and I read that several of them have come out in support of Readers accusation. How little Anita Hill's name has come up in all this as if black women just didn't matter, ya think? I blame the DNC's neocon reindeer games, their collusion with mainstream media, which is all the more ugly for the cancelling of the NY primaries that hurts progressive leverage through Sanders campaign. If only we took molestation of women seriously, Reade's accusation would be regarded as part and parcel of them, and part of a history that goes back to the Thomas/Hill hearings. We just don't take the molestation of women as seriously as the molestation of young males and the way it keeps women's access to power and autonomy mediated by male aggression And now we're here, stuck with Biden.

I've written about this all on FB and have been round and round with people on it.

I will vote for the lesser of 2 rapists--it's not the first time. I don't blame anyone who can't bring themselves to do likewise--I just hope they vote 3rd party or write-in, and Democrat down ticket, instead of staying home. And I want to see Reade treated with more respect, even if she is not as "good a victim" as Blasey-Ford, including by Biden. He gave Lucy Flores, et all a damned non-apology last year. Hill told him what was lacking when he tried to apologize to her. There are ways he could have shown himself an ally while still denying Reade's accusations and he didn't--not at all. I only hope he'll win because the alternative is so much worse.

[minoanmiss]

" I think the "believe all women" mantra is a trap because absolute proclamations are a problem when there are multiple axes of powers, ie, black men being lynched by sexual accusation of white women--you have to look at the lines of power, not just gender, and see how they line up in the case. And in this case they all line up in one direction."

This is so true. Absolutely everything you've said here is so true.

Ughghghghhgghghghggh I hate that you have to waste such eloquence on such an ugly disgusting topic, that all of us have to contemplate which rapist we'd rather vote for. UGH.

[sabotabby]

I believe her.

In my experience, no one lies about sexual assault unless there's something in it for them. I've had to endure a few false accusations about friends and lovers (and I know they were false because they were instances where either I was with the person at the time or someone else was around and saw them at the time they supposedly did it). In all of those cases, the accuser had something to gain. In one case it amounted to a mixture of alcohol, racism, and shame (this happened over two decades ago and I'm still enraged about it), in another leftist cred and also substance use was involved, in another I think it was a borderline situation where my ex acted stupidly, but the accuser also had a whack of issues and loves attention (and later retracted his accusation).

When I think about this woman, I think she's going to get dragged through the mud, by people that she liked and trusted, and unless she's been under a rock for her entire life, she knows it. It's too long ago for her to be a Republican plant that just sprung up at the last minute, and I can't think what she'd have to gain by lying.

Also, his behaviour in public has been so demonstrably awful that it would be surprising if he hadn't ever raped anyone.

[minoanmiss]

Yeah. :/ I agree with you and lavendertook. I have hung out in the wrong places for so long that I felt obliged to add #4 Just In Case.

[amaebi]

I was always annoyed at him for entering the race. I disliked him since his first attempt at the nomination, during which he got into a pissing match with another candidate or a newsman about whose intellect was mightier, which was disgustingly indicative, and lied about his academic history, which was shabby and tiresome.

I don't think he has any reason for running except wanna-be-President. That's a minus-plus, since I don't think he'll be more conservative than Richard Nixon, and I think he's extremely influenceable about policy, and may be too old to involve himself much anyway. So that's something where I trust him up to a point.

I wish he'd never been considered a safety, and I think it's daft that he was.

I think it's almost as likely that he forgot merely bracing a young woman volunteer and finger-raping her, as that he lied about it. Because after all, what was female flesh but man-accessory? And what is #MeToo in many quarters now, but an Attack on the Men?

I think it's unfortunate that some Dems seem to feel obliged to denounce the accusations and Tara Reade. Taking a serious approach and inviting the GOP to do likewise when it comes to accusations against Joffrey seems to me so much likelier to work.

I think it would also be a fine time for opinion-writers to muse on how Times Have Changed, and in the Old Days treating women's bodies as prey or punchlines was a commonplace. That while accusations of sexual harassment and assault against men are heard much oftener now than formerly, they clearly aren't conclusive, as the seating of Brett Kavanaugh on the Supreme Court demonstrates-- so why should one party decapitate at least two generations of male candidates when the other does not?

More than anything else, I want a Dem sweep of House, Senate, and White House. Not at all costs, but I can't think of anything likely to come up that seems to me to counterbalance the tremendous destructions of the Joffrey administration.

[used_songs]

I was always annoyed at him for entering the race.

YES! I was so angry when he announced because I knew he would somehow become the "safe" choice and we had a big chance of him being the nominee.

[lyonesse]

...the thing is that i have so little control over the choice, for me, this is up there with arguing about the weather.

yes, i deeply wish it were warren.

that said, i'd still vote for plenty of people i know are rapists over trump, whom i also know to be a rapist.

i'm not sure about uncle joe, but there's no reason or way for me to meaningfully care.

[cellio]

This is going to get ugly quickly. This is bad, and voters need to also remember the many, many cases of the Trumpster's violations including during his campaign, i.e. recent. There are no good choices here, and lots of people who don't deserver it are going to be dragged through the mud. :-(

[ororo]

I have been in a lot of arguments about Creepy Uncle Joe in the past several days. I nearly got driven out of a group because I posted a video compilation of him crowding various women and GIRLS and smelling their hair.

Like you, I will be furious if she's lying.

Men I have encountered most recently, do not understand what it means for women to have to choose between two men who have been accused of sexual assault and rape for the highest office in the country.

[vettecat]

It does seem like in this particular case she may be lying, which will make it even harder for others to be believed.

Ex-prosecutor: Why I'm skeptical about Reade's sexual assault claim against Biden
https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/3046962001

Obama Campaign's Vetting of Joe Biden Found No Tara Reade Complaint in 2008
https://www.newsweek.com/obama-campaigns-vetting-joe-biden-found-no-tara-reade-complaint-2008-david-axelrod-says-1501596

[minoanmiss]

The thing is... there's no such thing as a perfect victim. For example, I didn't tell anyone I was sexually assaulted until months later, because where I was it wasn't safe for me to tell anyone. I've had people tell me that I must have been making it up and the time lag 'proves' it. So with that experience and others in my knowledge bank, it usually takes a lot to prove to me that someone is lying when they say they were assaulted.

I mean, I also know a case where I know for certain that the accuser was lying, but in general... I know that it's possible for someone to be questionable and still ultimately telling the truth.