I need to be congratulated for this

[minoanmiss]

[TBH, no I don't, and this is all extremely petty and stupid.]

So far today in my Tumbling I found a post that listed cogently everything I also found wrong with Captain America:Civil War, and I did not reblog it, nor did I send a link to any of several friends, acquaintances, and former friends saying "You might want to read this." I told myself to be glad someone wrote it and I hit the little heart and I am dragging myself onwards. Because I said I was done with that fandom, and also it was literally years ago, and also I am ridiculous about my grudges.

More importantly, in both directions, I also found a post about the real effects of racism and I really, really, wanted to write my own post 1) commending the post (which is now in my queue) and 2) talking about how this was why I got into that fight in June, because while experiencing racism hurts Black women's feelings literally no one* cares about that or believes we have feelings, but to everyone saying that if a Black woman points out racism and someone can respond "you hurt my feelings" that therefor the respondent can validly say that she was wrong to point out racism and that no racism exists, I wanted to point out that this response is not only inaccurate but has material effects on the Black woman. If she's in school or at work the authorities will punish her for speaking up and see the person she pointed the racism out to as the real victim. If it's a police or legal proceeding the authorities will see her as the perpetrator. And everyone in that thread was preparing each other for a lifetime of not listening to Black women and inflicting these consequences on us. I want to say all that on Tumblr but I know Tumblr is just about the worst place ever to try to have such a discussion, and also grudges, so I stuck it here because writing things down gets them out of my head.

*: not really, of course. But one of the issues Black women face is that, as a group, White women tend not to listen to us about being Black and Black men tend not to listen to us about being women and not many people from any other groups are listening to us at all. It's a fun position to be in. Of course, one of the conclusions to draw from this is to consider who needs to be heard whom I can listen to in turn.

I have refrained from commenting on quite a few things on Tumblr recently, and in the moment it feels wrenching, but I keep telling myself I'm saving trouble and not getting into fights that will only make me unhappy. I hope this is actual prudence and not cowardice, but I guess I just need to trust myself. And also restrain myself.

ETA Tumblr and random chance rewarded me for my good behavior with this awesome fancast!

Comments

[redbird]

I would like to be able to point at the part of this beginning "More importantly...." but that might drag you into arguments you don't have the energy for, and yes I want to say "listen to this person, she knows things about racism that I don't," but not if that means people will yell at you.

[minoanmiss]

This is the exact conundrum, isn't it? I really want to tell you to go ahead, I trust your judgement and I really want to help to spread knowledge, but... I'm also feeling a little self protective. I'm torn.

*contemplates* I can always screen comments and choose not to engage, I suppose. All right. If I can help I want to help. :)

[redbird]

I have posted that "hey look at this," but what I wound up excerpting was the footnote at the end of that paragraph. If that's not OK, I'll edit this; I'm trying to amplify your message.

[minoanmiss]

I just saw your post and blushed a lot. :) It's fine. It's better than fine.

[lb_lee]

Enh, I mean. I feel it weird to call it cowardice NOT to throw yourself into an online fight that's highly unlikely to achieve anything but upset you.

Like, it'd be one thing if you actually have a snowball's chance in hell of changing someone's mind, but tumblr's very set up (both on a tech and social level) seem to be against you. You don't gotta wreck yourself to just hold yourself to some impossible standard of radical strength, you know?

--Mori

[minoanmiss]

Thank you for reminding me of these truths. :)

[princessofgeeks]

ALL THE HUGS.

Also I do hope you have people in your life that you feel listen to you and take your feelings into account. Because the personal is political, but the day to day is so important. We all have to find pockets of safety and equality in order to survive.

MOAR HUGS

ETA Also I wish you'd send me the link to that post because I have always wondered what happened to you IRT the MCU fandom but I don't want you to have to rehash it or even think about it any more. Sometimes it's very good to move on and while SW has its problems I know there is so much for you to love there and so many kindred spirits.

[minoanmiss]

I cling to the people in my life who listen to me. I am so fortunate in them.

Oh, the MCU. So, picture the biggest, biggest fandom flamewar, only bigger. That's what the Cicil War movie opened up. Not only did people say that X heroic character or Y heroic character was actually an irredeemable villain, but that fans in real life were terrible people who support X social ill or Y social ill because of which side we favored coming out of the movie.

After I wrote a couple of stories that got flamed to the dickens, and lost a couple of friends (including one person I've met IRL multiple times) over this, yeah. My sweetie WD always says of me that I have the combination of strong opinions and thin skin. He's right.

Anyway. He just arrived to take me to dinne! so. *hugs you most gratefully back*

[kore]

LOL I would like it too, I HATED Civil War and it just about killed my engagement with MCU, which was really something because TFA/TWS got me back into fandom after years and years of not being in it at all.

[kore]

//just hugs

one of the issues Black women face is that, as a group, White women tend not to listen to us about being Black and Black men tend not to listen to us about being women and not many people from any other groups are listening to us at all

Yeah, that kind of intersectionality-in-reverse really, really sucks. I agree Tumblr is like the very worst place to try to have that kind of conversation (or any convo at all really, I just hate it there). And self-protection is really, really important. It's like they always say, put on your own oxygen mask and protect yourself first, but isn't speaking up always inherently risky? And at what point does keeping quiet become corrosive? -- ANYWAY, one thought exercise I learned in therapy is: imagine yourself not doing (X thing). How do you feel? Relieved? Unhappy? Disappointed? Sometimes that can be helpful. I will try to be a supportive friend no matter what, anyway.

[minoanmiss]

Have I told you recently that I'm really glad I met you? *hugs you warmly*

[kore]

AWW. //hugsback

[tibicina]

I've tried to figure out why I dislike tumblr so much, and I think I've finally realized that the answer is - it is actively hard to read and follow comments on the posts. It's fine for the initial post, but it's actively difficult to read any responses to that post, much less any responses to those responses. I mean, it's worse than twitter in that regard.

This also makes it super difficult to have any sort of real conversations there.

[minoanmiss]

So true. Tumblr is really good for getting things but it's so terrible for responding to them.

[corylea]

It makes me heartsick that our world is such that some people's pain is considered "more legitimate" than other people's pain. And just that would be bad enough, but telling people who are discriminated against to shut up because it makes the discriminators uncomfortable is so wrong that I don't even have a word to describe it, though heinous comes to mind.

*hug* I'm so sorry that you have this crap to deal with and that you've had it to deal with for your entire fucking life.

[minoanmiss]

*hugs you a whole lot back* Thank you a lot.

Also, I had dinner with WG last night and he spoke glowingly of you as ever. :D

ETA I was thinking a bit. more about this, as I've said to ookpik.

[amaebi]

If I take the dynamics of MCU fandom on Twitter as given, I congratulate you on taking care of yourself though I'm sorry that means silence.

How I hate taking those kinds of dynamics as given, and how I feel that that means abandoning the word to toxic desertification. :(

[minoanmiss]

Yeah. :( I don't want to abandon the world to toxic desertification, but maybe I should take my small store of seeds and water elsewhere than ground that's been poisoned for me.

[amaebi]

Yeah. There's where they're needed, there's what their chances are in each place, and there's what sharing them costs you.

[ookpik]

Thank you for saying this. (And it is neither petty nor stupid, for whatever my opinion may be worth.) I am sorry, and angry, that you and others are so often confronted with White fragility. Please speak about it when you feel it right to do so, while remembering that you have no obligation to educate the wilfully ignorant, and you always have the right to protect yourself as needed.
Hugs offered.

[minoanmiss]

Hi Hi! It's so good to hear from you!

And goodness, thank you. What I describe here is an example of more general patterns of privilege and dis privilege, and I'm trying to remind myself through my complaints of what I can do and refrain from doing when I'm on the other side of things. This came up in my life recently so I've been thinking about it especially.

Anyway. *husg you* thank you for telling me this.

[establishingaplace]

Here via redbird.

I don't have much to say that wouldn't sound trite or ally theater-ish in some way, but I just want to say that I'm listening and that I appreciate all of the POC who have shared their stories and offered perspective I couldn't otherwise grasp. I just wish there was something practical I could do - seems white people either get it or want to get it, or they don't get it and don't want to get it.

[minoanmiss]

Oh goodness, thank you for popping by to tell me this!

In many discussions there are, as well as the people involved, others watching or listening, and I've both heard from people whose minds were changed and been someone who changed my mind based on what I learned from reading a discussion.

[vettecat]

I also sometimes will refrain from correcting someone who is obviously wrong because I know they won't listen to me and all I'll be doing is opening myself up for several hours of stress arguing with them. Sad but true. Sometimes you just need to protect your own mental health.

[minoanmiss]

So, so true. This post is all about working on finding that balance. :)

[amberdreams]

I was going to say something profound about racism and women and such deep matters - but then I clicked on your fancast link with the alternative Marvel casting and got lost in the idea of Dev Patel as Tony Stark. Not that I don't love RDJ as Tony Stark but hot damn. Dev is just... *happy sigh* ...BEAUTIFUL.

Actually - Idris as Thor would have been awesome casting. *melts*

[minoanmiss]

That really is a lovely fancast.