Then and now

[minoanmiss]

So I accidentally misgendered A

TL abd A and I were sitting around after A’s awesome visit which I need to write up. I was talking about the Gazebo Story (first person to supply a link wins a prize ) and I was reminiscing about telling A that story when I thought A was a little girl so I said “Her father can tell it better than I can”. TL pointed out what I said abd I apologized.

I have noticed that for the people whose transitions I w been honored to witness I have trouble with the past before they came out to me. Especially when they were little. Part of me wants to say “before you are a boy” but that’s not actually the truth just my perception. So I need to figure out a way to edit my memories as it were. Human memory is very fungible. I should use that fact for good.

Comments

[dissectionist]

It’s not a you problem, it’s just a thing when we’ve known someone a long time. Shit, I’ve been out for over a decade and I still misgender myself by accident on occasion, much less other people who aren’t in my head.

I don’t even bother correcting people anymore if they’re closer to me and they usually get it right, because I know they’re trying their best. Correcting people already doing their best won’t magically fix the ways our brains work.

However, correcting people who don’t give a shit, including using bicycle horns every time they fuck up, is 100% valid and worth doing. A person who fucks yup because they don’t care enough to bother trying is very different from someone who’s trying and generally gets it right.

Misgendering

[dialecticdreamer]

I've accidentally used the wrong name when a family member started going by their middle name. For weeks. Seriously, I was practically smacking my own head against the wall, because I wanted to get it right, but the habit was decades long and taking time to break.

ONE misgendering, an immediate apology? You're doing your best, cut yourself some slack.

[full_metal_ox]

Two versions of The Gazebo Story: https://web.archive.org/web/19990218164955/https://www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/98/Jul/gazebo.html
https://imgur.com/gallery/knights-of-dinner-table-gazebo-old-classic-from-kodt-issue-1-1994-0G8Wy

A Jewish belief regarding converts to Judaism might offer you a helpful analogy; the idea is that the Almighty, who transcends space and time, retcons (or foresaw) the convert as always having been Jewish: water returning to the sea. (Disclaimer: actual Jews are not only welcome but invited to correct my understanding of the concept.)

[cellio]

The convert was issued a Jewish soul but for some reason it was better for the person to make the journey instead of just starting out that way.

[full_metal_ox]

Ah—thank you for the clarification! So would that be one expression of tikkun olam?

[cellio]

Meant as an expansion, not a correction, by the way.

I'm not sure if tradition says this is also an expression of tikkun olam, but now that you mention it, it sure feels like it fits in there! Nice observation.

[cellio]

When we've known someone for a long time in one configuration, it takes a while to rewire our brains. If I never knew someone as another gender, I'm not going to goof -- I never had conflicting data. If I knew Bob for a decade before Beth, it's harder to avoid slips. Decent people will understand an honest, immediately-corrected goof, and indecent people are not worth worrying about.

[cmcmck]

These things happen, especially with people you've know since forever.

[rmc28]

I’ve also had that issue with a few people, especially the ones in my life for a while before they came out to me. The most helpful thing I found was to deliberately talk about them (even if just to myself) telling the stories about them with conscious attention to the names and pronouns, so I had lots of recent practice in using the right ones.

[lunabee34]

I misgender Dylan sometimes (and then apologize) because I knew them for 20 years by she pronouns. I never misgender people I meet after a transition because I never knew them as another gender. It's just brain stuff, not you being a jackass stuff. Don't worry.

[ailbhe]

My kids and their peers don't care much if the person is doing it from brainfartitude rather than attitude. Apology and move on seems to be absolutely adequate.

[grayestofghosts]

So much of this just makes me unwilling to update things from trans male to nonbinary with people, it was hard enough to get them on board the first time and doing it again seems like it would just upset them and discredit me.

[rachelkg]

Avoiding misgendering for past events is harder for a lot of people (everyone?) than getting it right for the present day -- and that's not immediately easy either.

My rubric for my own misgendering errors is (1) thank the person who caught it, or say "oops, sorry" if i caught it myself. (2) immediately repeat what i'd been saying, with the correct name and pronouns. (3) practice on my own later, if need be.

I retcon as much as possible, and if it's *super* relevant, will say something about presentation at the time or what other people thought. (There are stories that only make sense with the context that the street harasser or controlling father thought they were dealing with a teenage girl, for instance.) But "when S was a little boy" is a thing I routinely say and it's eventually become comfortable.

[flamingsword]

I have trouble with gendering myself incorrectly this same way, when thinking back to when I was trying to have a girlhood.
(Digression: being a genderless freak used to seem like a terrible thing and I ran away from it for so long because of how people treated me when I acted like myself.) So now I have weirdness in my head about “misgendering myself”. Human memory is strange.