Three Articles

[minoanmiss]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/why-we-re-still-in-love-with-the-toxic-myth-of-the-great-man/ar-AA1jNhIW?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=ccaa5b039feb4a8699e9635e89279a46&ei=49


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/is-it-heroic-or-cruel-to-take-pets-from-owners-too-poor-to-care-for-them/ar-AA1pY49f?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=5d9c5251829544c0a0f27b37943c8e5c&ei=95


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/takeaways-from-ap-s-report-on-jd-vance-and-the-catholic-postliberals-in-his-circle-of-influence/ar-AA1pYS6B?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=b91214acdf0147c89ef5fc5bc625d196&ei=50

Well, today I have learned about, and learned to be afraid of, postliberal Catholics. *shudder*

Comments

[princessofgeeks]

Unfortunately my mother's best friend has a daughter than went into the rabbit hole of conservative Catholicism, including following that bishop who felt that Pope Francis was Not Really The Pope and Should Be Rejected.

The mental gyrations needed to reject the pope from INSIDE the church boggle the mind.

Oh and this entire family is now anti vax too. To my mom's friend's utter horror and heartbreak. The daughter and her husband are both trained engineers and worked in environmental science. I have no idea how this happened to them.

It's weird out there.

[hitchhiker]

sigh :( the church has a lot to answer for and these radical offshoots have even more

[dissectionist]

Catholic postliberalism is the Catholic version of Christian Dominionism.

Considering Dominionism has made major inroads over the past 20 years (they’d been laying the groundwork since the 1970s, but it was really in the 2000s and onward that they started achieving goals), and there’s now a Dominionist on the Supreme Court, I don’t think anyone should take postliberalism lightly. There’s a lot of folks who are working hard to take us back to the Dark Ages.

But I warned people extensively about Dominionists back in the 90s and nobody cared, and realistically, I don’t expect anything different this go-round. Most people don’t want to acknowledge a threat until it’s so entrenched there’s little way to fix it.

[ororo]

That's the first word that came to mind when I read the definition. I've been trying to warn people about it as well.

[purlewe]

As I was once Catholic myself, I call those types of Catholics "born again" Catholics. The level of conservatism I say equals or even surpasses born again Christians my grandfather, already a Catholic, went to classes with his 2nd wife for her to reconvert (she left Catholicism for Pentecostal and then came back when she married him) and his Catholicism shifted bc that is the kind they are now teaching in the adult version of conversion/CCD

[full_metal_ox]

I presume your grandfather was widowed rather than divorced when he married his second wife, right?

[purlewe]

Yes. 3 months after my grandmother died he married his 2nd wife. Typical of his generation that he could not be alone, make his own food, clean his own house, etc. he married to have someone care for him, but stipulated she has to convert. My grandmother never converted.

[rmd]

There's been a lurking "Vatican II was a bad idea" kind of old Catholic church around forever. I vaguely remember a few decades ago I met a priest who'd left the main Roman Catholic church to go be a priest in that weird niche. But that's way different than these Opus Dei weirdos, or as some folks (including queer blogger "JoeMyGod") call them, "Red-Caped Loons". Way more Benedict than Francis, to compare the last two Popes. I mean, what, were they jealous of the Protestants for having all the really weird hardcore retrograde beliefs or something?

[flamingsword]

Opus Dei are now in control of two local Catholic colleges and several churches here in Dallas. They’re playing a long game on this stuff.

[ororo]

I had a friend who went backwards like that and started going to a church that held a Latin mass. Their politics started moving further to the right. We nearly fell out over pharmacists who deny prescriptions for contraception or Plan B, and I finally cut contact after they posted a racist piece from a Catholic publication.

Regarding what you said about the Protestants: While I took that as sarcastic, I think there might be a kernel of truth to it.

[rmd]

Sarcastic but very "ha ha but also serious."
They've certainly picked up some of the very binary attitude of "I am with god and if you are against me you are against god," which is something I think of as much more Protestant than in line with the Catholic church I grew up in.
I mean, part of it was the time (I survived acoustic guitar "folk Mass" in the early 1970's) when the church, at least in the Boston area, was in a comfortable position of power and the long-running abuses hadn't come to light yet, and also a lot of the people who would eventually move towards a more strict/conservative/etc position hadn't done so, yet.
There's a line in, I think Revelations, about "be hot or cold in my mouth do not be lukewarm or I will spit you out" is big for some of the evangelical Protestants and is used as a justification for pushing further and further in some particular direction, and I don't know if these Opus Dei and other hardcore conservative Catholic groups are using that quote, they're definitely going with that attitude.

[ororo]

We have a few things in common--I grew up about an hour outside of Boston (Wilmington & then Andover), and also went through folk masses (I'm Buddhist now).

I couldn't listen to the Youngbloods' Get Together for years afterwards.

[full_metal_ox]

They've certainly picked up some of the very binary attitude of "I am with god and if you are against me you are against god," which is something I think of as much more Protestant than in line with the Catholic church I grew up in.

John Calvin, with his emphasis on predestination and the Elect—with the consequent notion of inherent and foreordained Good Guys and Bad Guys—has a lot to answer for.

[amaebi]

Thanks in particular for the article on post liberal Catholicism and J. Divans.

I have been concerned that the galvanized-frog nature of the Trump campaign indicates their relatively stronger focus on insurrection and coup in the event of their lacking votes to win.

The material in this article would seem to confirm my concern.

[acelightning73]

The myth of the "Hero/Savior/Great Man" seems to be deeply embedded in the human psyche. (And I won't get all Freudian about Father Figures).

(I don't want to read the other two articles.)

[lokifan]

Oh yeah, I've read some scary stuff about this crowd - new converts to Catholicism (or sometimes to Russian Orthodoxy) who really lean into the misogyny.